Company founder, Volker D. Ledermann, and Director, Per Ledermann, in conversation

If you had to explain the merits of your markers to someone unfamiliar with the edding name, how would you sum them up in a single sentence?

Volker Ledermann: Fluent writing and permanent marking.

Per Ledermann: I would ask him what he needed it for. We have made it our mission to offer the right, top-quality product for any purpose. For example, if he wanted to write on whiteboards, the ink should be wipeable.

 

As an international company, you decided on Ahrensburg as your HQ. Why?

Volker Ledermann: We founded the company in Hamburg and stayed there for a while. However, the city was expensive - and in those days Ahrensburg was an enterprise zone with tax incentives offered to businesses that set themselves up there. What’s more, Carl-Wilhelm Edding lived in Volksdorf and I in lived in Siek – and Ahrensburg was midway between the two.

 

What was it like starting up a company in 1960?

Volker Ledermann: Carl-Wilhelm Edding and I were school friends. Later, I became an export manager for a company selling office supplies and promotional gifts. Mr Edding worked for a Japanese importer. We were both of the opinion, however, that we could do things better on our own. So, I carried on working for a bit longer whilst Mr Edding worked half days. In our free time, we forged our plans. Our first order was for a squirrel-hair brush - an artist’s brush in other words - which we sold to Pelikan.

 

When did you get into markers?

Volker Ledermann: We were in contact with a man in Japan who sold felt-tipped pens by the name of “Tink-Ink”. It was like a sort of glass vial with felt in it. It was very good, simply that the break-proof glass made it a bit awkward and cumbersome. We though it was great and sold it as the edding No. 1.

 

Did you import it from Japan at the time?

Volker Ledermann: Yes, we got in touch with a distribution organisation which sold our product throughout Germany. They paid for the goods within eight days, with a discount. We had a credit arrangement with our Japanese supplier which gave us a 120-day payment term. This meant that once the goods had arrived we still had just under 100 days in which to sell them. Sometimes, it was a bit of a juggling act. I was travelling a lot at that time.

 

Presumably to Japan?

Volker Ledermann: That’s right - because all innovations in our sector back then were coming out of Japan. It was not an easy thing to travel there. We flew for 37 hours, with plenty of stopovers. In those days, we couldn’t communicate with our suppliers via fax or email. A letter would take 10 days to arrive, and you had to wait a similar length of time to receive a reply.

 

How did you bridge the language barrier?

Volker Ledermann: In Japan, you could always get by with English in business circles. In hotels, however, it was often not like that at all: the rooms had no numbers, just names. I remember taking a pen and writing down the name on my hand so that I would be able to find my hotel room again. Extra slippers were also provided - for the restaurant, for your bedroom, for the bathroom. In your bedroom, there was no bed and no chair - just a low table. You couldn’t lock the hotel door. The maid spoke no English and would keep coming up to my room and asking me something I did not understand! I kept saying “hai”, which means “yes”. In the evening, I was given 27 teas! At some point or other, she came and brought my bedding. Apparently, the pillow contained only stones –and the mattress was filled with cherry stones. It was tough; you had to get used to it.

Per Ledermann: if you got to rural parts of Japan today, it can sometimes still be like that. Some of our suppliers are a long way from Tokyo, and there are corners where little English is spoken.

 

Back to Hamburg: What did your first offices look like?

Volker Ledermann: We rented space in a basement in the Barmbek district of Hamburg. We had a start-up capital of 5,000 Marks and an old typewriter. However, we were fortunate because our contacts in the profession meant we already had a set group of customers. Of course, we had some cash-flow issues, which we hoped to bridge with help from the bank.

 

Back then, were people encouraged to start up new companies?

Volker Ledermann: Not at all. We wanted a loan of 1,000 Marks from the bank, but everyone just shook their heads. We had to go it alone - but when you are still on the right side of 30, it’s not quite so frightening.

 

Who were the first to buy your permanent markers?

Volker Ledermann: At the time, we still called them “Schnell-Schreiber” (“quick writers”) although they were all used for permanent marking. Once we had left the basement office, we moved into premises down near the docks. Warehouse firms and forwarding agents would use our products to label sacks, boxes and crates. But there were also an office-products dealer who helped us youngsters on our way. So we had some good luck too.

 

When you looked for a name for the company, did you take a long time discussing it? Or was it obvious that the company would be called edding?

Volker Ledermann: We knew we wanted to use a family name. That was because made-up names had to be registered as a trademark, and we did not have the money for that. We both thought that Edding was more succinct, snappier and more international-sounding than Ledermann.

 

Business partnerships are usually successful if the individuals complement each other’s abilities. What was it like for you?

Volker Ledermann: Mr Edding liked to tinker with things. He would work on the products, whilst I travelled the world to win customers. So that is how we complemented one another. Neither of us are people who like to be in the public eye. Mr Edding possibly less so than me - he would always cringe if he were ever asked if he had something to do with the edding brand, and would try to hush it up.

 

But as a listed company, you certainly did become more public. What drove you to float the company?

Volker Ledermann: There were several reasons, one being expansion into the USA. One thing was clear, to do that we needed more money than we had. Once again, we tried a bank – they were unwilling or unable to help us. In any event, it resulted in the end of our relationship with that bank.

Per Ledermann: They’ve been kicking themselves as a result ever since.

Volker Ledermann: Another reason was that Mr Edding indicated, even back then, that he would want to retire at some point. I could never have bought him out. This was when the idea of the IPO came to mind. Over the years, I have bought back shares little by little. Today, they are back in the hands of the Ledermann family once more. We are a family concern.

 

“Family” is the watchword here. Many family-owned firms come up against problems when there is a generational change. How did you avoid that?

Per Ledermann: I have been heavily involved, both at a legal and at a family level. If anything goes awry in one of these areas, it will also be felt in the other. We have a charter that governs legal issues. One of the things that I really value about my father is the fact that, when I joined the company, he took a back seat.

Volker Ledermann: As a father, I do not wish to control my son. I took the decision to put my trust in him. Even as a child, Per would often come with me on business trips. But I never forced him down this path; he could equally have become a doctor.
Per Ledermann: I did consider other professions before this one. When I was at school, I did work experience as a vet. I have also done some travelling when I was involved in tourism –I’ve done a stint in the oil industry and have worked in foodstuffs.

 

The digital age means that people write less by hand. Is this a challenge for edding?

Per Ledermann: Yes, I would say it is. Although it hasn’t squeezed the market as much as you might think. Our products are less affected by the digital age: in production, they are used for marking hot or greasy metal. You cannot digitise that.

Volker Ledermann: The focus of our business is on marking and anything that relates to marking. If someone wants to label jam jars, to all intents and purposes this constitutes marking. You can’t use a ball-point pen or a pencil.

 

What, in your opinion, is the most unusual place in which a marker has been used?

Volker Ledermann: There are lots of unusual places: beekeepers use our products to mark their queen bee.

Per Ledermann: Another example was the European football championships in Germany in 2006. The ticket office telephoned us to say they needed to make entrance tickets transferable. Printing was not an option, so they wanted to find a pen that would dry quickly on the surface and could not be wiped off or erased. We sent them pens normally intended for use in the space industry.

 

Does it fill you with pride to know that edding has become a generic term for permanent markers?

Volker Ledermann: I am not someone who easily feels proud about things, but it does fill me with joy, if ever I am travelling  - say, in the Falklands or the Seychelles - and I go past a shop window and spot edding products on sale.

Per Ledermann: It’s less to do with pride and more gratitude, because it does help - and our brand name is our most important asset. If you like, to be used as a generic term is to be accorded the highest accolade.

 

On the other hand, transport authorities and schools don’t always hold you in quite such high esteem?

Per Ledermann: In schools, you see the flipside of being a generic term. On the list of school accessories that pupils need, you might read “no eddings”. This is, of course, twaddle – what they mean is permanent markers. But we also sell a range of other kinds of pen that are a wonderful accessory for day-to-day school life. We work closely with transport authorities. We do not make our products so that people can deface property.

 

Your markers contain chemical products. Care for the environment is close to your heart. What do you do about that?

Volker Ledermann: In the beginning, our markers contained benzene - but we have replaced this with better, gentler solvents. For a long time now, we have been selling refill ink in shops and have been providing in-store recycle bins. Today, in Production we use a high proportion of recycled plastics, tips and filters.

 

Behind successful products there lies a successful workforce. What is it that puts “edding ink in the blood”?

Volker Ledermann: We have many members of staff who have been with us for many years. It obviously creates a bond – in the past, I have always compared the company to a family. In the early days, when the weather was nice, we would go to Baltic coast for a swim on Fridays and put the answer-phone on. Things aren’t quite so simple now.

Per Ledermann: The working atmosphere is essentially a positive one – and it’s thanks also to our staff. We aim to keep it that way. There are hardly any hierarchies. We nurture the principle of co-operation and, in case of doubt, our staff will go that extra mile. At the moment, we are working under difficult economic conditions in the face of the global recession. But our staff pull together.

 

Let’s peer into the crystal ball: where do you see edding in ten years from now?

Volker Ledermann: This year, our predictions were thrown into disarray, so it is difficult to say how things will be so far ahead. Having said that, I think that edding has everything in place to keep going and continue growing.

Per Ledermann: We never quite know which areas of business will see growth. Our Legamaster brand is currently a good case in point. For some time now, we have had interactive boards in our range. You write on a whiteboard and it is digitised for use on computer. Until recently, this was a niche area. Then came the economic crisis, and the German government introduced a stimulus package from which schools have been able to benefit. At a stroke, all old chalk boards are being replaced by interactive boards. Just three years ago, six percent of our sales were generated through our Legamaster brand. This year, the figure will be around 30 per cent. This shows that if you are convinced by an idea, you also need to have the stamina to be in it for the long haul.

 

What do you do in your free time?

Volker Ledermann: I ride horses and own a 31,000-hectare nature reserve in Africa. I breed horses there and am also involved in tourism. Of course, it costs time to build things up. It is not just purely for pleasure for, when all is said and done, it is also a business. Because I do not want to move out there lock, stock and barrel, I have to travel out there several times a year to sort things out. I am also a yachtsman. I used to sail at weekends only, but now I go out three times a week.

Per Ledermann: I currently have a lot to keep me busy at work! I have a family with three children aged 3 to 13. I try to involve my family in my day-to-day working life. In that vein, my children might roam the corridors at the weekend or catch fish in the pond at the main entrance. To balance things out, I play “handball” for a team of which I’ve been a member for 20 years.

 

One last question: you obviously reject the cult of personality, but there must surely be some famous people who use your products and make you feel proud?

Per Ledermann: One particular event that comes to mind is when George Bush Senior, Michael Gorbachev and Helmut Kohl used an edding to sign a section of the Berlin wall.

Volker Ledermann: Pride is the wrong word. I am pleased if I turn on the TV and see someone using an edding. It is nice to think that our products have penetrated the market on such a wide scale and that it’s hard to imagine life without them.